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Gameplay/Balancing Suggestions

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1 Gameplay/Balancing Suggestions on Tue May 15, 2012 5:47 am

Yandere

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Newbie
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While adjusting my rule list today, I started thinking about a few things.

- We have anti-hoard rules, but everyone has a 20 weight limit. So much space to add more and more items.
If the weight limit was reduced to 12-15, one could not simply grab the strongest weapons (axe/alon) and a nice supply of support items. It's almost as if the weight limit could provoke hoarding items because it's so easy to.

- Hoard limit is currently only active on medkits and keys. But why not other items?
Other items are getting hoarded as well, paint cans for example. Even the super regenerative, the most used healing item still has no hoard limit! I believe the hoard limit should work on all useful items. Things like paper can be endless of course.

- Taser nerf.
A random % of the players gets lucky and finds a taser in the starting teacher's desk. But it's almost an instant killer when used correctly. It's like the ''power weapon'' of old shooting games and anyone holding it is just feared. But what if the taser did not instantly knock the player out? I think the taser should do about 75%-80% stamina damage, anyone running or swinging a big weapon would be knocked out by this. While players with small weapons could fight back against it. A knife player would win a taser user, while an axe player would lose against the taser.

- See Inventory/role for hosts.
When there is no GM and I suspect someone is lying to me, I can only try and play mind tricks on the person so he or she confesses to me. A tool would help me and dragon out .

(Please discuss about this next suggestion.)
- Killer spawn (Normal mode)
Personally I love normal mode, I can try to take out the entire server in a sneaky way. If I'm spotted, my chases are really slim. However a lot of people are complaining about this, the difficulty level. When I spawn as the killer, I have an RP reason to start collecting items: I want to kill every other player and live. My chances would be abysmal to remain undetected with a pocket knife and a spray. The killer has to flawlessly kill a few players to be able to win the match if he or she did not quickly grab some medkits/regens. I'm forced to RP with myself to let watchers know I have a RP reason.

I'm not sure about this myself, normal mode is a touchy subject. But what do you think about giving the killer supplies at spawn?
One Medkit
One regenerative/syringe
A paint can
Feather
Taser
Billhook

Killer can focus the task/RPing, rather than searching for items quickly in panic.



I'm still looking over the set rules, I might add an additional post to this topic later today.

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2 Re: Gameplay/Balancing Suggestions on Tue May 15, 2012 10:06 am

Dragonzeanse


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EDIT: I cleared up these suggestions with her on MSN. The weight limit should be set like hour durations or lethality. That, I am in support of.

Spoiler:
Yandere wrote:- We have anti-hoard rules, but everyone has a 20 weight limit. So much space to add more and more items.
If the weight limit was reduced to 12-15, one could not simply grab the strongest weapons (axe/alon) and a nice supply of support items. It's almost as if the weight limit could provoke hoarding items because it's so easy to.

I don't know. Personally, I'm anal about hoarding items, but I don't think the option should be denied to other people who are more lenient on such a guideline. I don't really like this idea.

Yandere wrote:- Hoard limit is currently only active on medkits and keys. But why not other items?
Other items are getting hoarded as well, paint cans for example. Even the super regenerative, the most used healing item still has no hoard limit! I believe the hoard limit should work on all useful items. Things like paper can be endless of course.

God yes. Although you can only fill one syringe at a time, super regeneratives can be hoarded nonetheless. I think other items should have a hoard limit of three, and personally, I'd like to be able to toggle two different limits. One will limit the keys and healing items to two, while the other will limit everything else to three.

I'd like to see a hoard limit for inventories that demonstrate hoarding but are varied enough to circumvent the three-of-one-item rule. While your previous suggestion would solve this problem, I don't want the change to be irreversible for aforementioned reasons. Each server should have their own rules.

Yandere wrote:- Taser nerf.
A random % of the players gets lucky and finds a taser in the starting teacher's desk. But it's almost an instant killer when used correctly. It's like the ''power weapon'' of old shooting games and anyone holding it is just feared. But what if the taser did not instantly knock the player out? I think the taser should do about 75%-80% stamina damage, anyone running or swinging a big weapon would be knocked out by this. While players with small weapons could fight back against it. A knife player would win a taser user, while an axe player would lose against the taser.

I'm all in favor of a taser nerf. Just decrease the rate of fire and this suggestion should be fine.

Yandere wrote:- See Inventory/role for hosts.
When there is no GM and I suspect someone is lying to me, I can only try and play mind tricks on the person so he or she confesses to me. A tool would help me and dragon out.

As much as I would love this, I recall being told - or at least determining for myself - that this will never be added in simply because it lends itself to abuse. In Death Note modes, an incompetent host could just check everyone for the Death Note and win. Or in Tsukihime mode, search them for a nanatsu-yoru and glasses. Despite the risks, I still think that people can just leave a server where it's being abused.

Yandere wrote:- Killer spawn (Normal mode)
Personally I love normal mode, I can try to take out the entire server in a sneaky way. If I'm spotted, my chases are really slim. However a lot of people are complaining about this, the difficulty level. When I spawn as the killer, I have an RP reason to start collecting items: I want to kill every other player and live. My chances would be abysmal to remain undetected with a pocket knife and a spray. The killer has to flawlessly kill a few players to be able to win the match if he or she did not quickly grab some medkits/regens. I'm forced to RP with myself to let watchers know I have a RP reason.

I'm not sure about this myself, normal mode is a touchy subject. But what do you think about giving the killer supplies at spawn?
One Medkit
One regenerative/syringe
A paint can
Feather
Taser
Billhook

Killer can focus the task/RPing, rather than searching for items quickly in panic.

I love this idea, but the items should obviously be randomized. While I think that they should always, always have a healing item, you could also switch up the other items. For example, two paint cans instead of a black feather, a bokken instead of a taser... but I'm unsure of what to say about the billhook because while maybe an axe-knife combo would be nice, if you're spawning with other items, this could posit another problem because you'll get overencumbered. The billhook is, in my opinion, the most balanced weapon and it makes a sound when you attack with it.

Your mileage may vary on the auditory indicator, however, because people can not only metagame knowing that the killer's weapon is always going to be a billhook, but it could compromise the killer. Personally I don't mind that, because metagaming rules are strictly enforced and anyone else could carry a billhook. It could draw roleplayers towards the scene of the crime, as well, and force more roleplay. If anyone is caught trying to accuse a person of being the killer just because they have a billhook, despite any of the person's defenses, then metagaming is much easier to detect in this scenario. It's not like Death Note, where everything you do can either be explained by coincidence or simply be waived just because you actually found Kira.

Here's what I think: the billhook that the killer spawns with should be unique. The billhook would be exactly the same as every other one cosmetically, but it would have increased damage to give killers an extra edge (no pun intended). I don't think this would break the game in the killer's favor, because even with a starting inventory, they can exhaust their items quickly, and they wouldn't even need to rush/hoard because they already have items to start with. So by the time they actually need to replace their equipment, people have already raided everything.



Last edited by Dragonzeanse on Tue May 15, 2012 12:24 pm; edited 4 times in total

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3 Re: Gameplay/Balancing Suggestions on Tue May 15, 2012 11:25 am

MATTIEMATTIEMATTIE

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Dragonzeanse wrote:
Yandere wrote:- Killer spawn (Normal mode)
Personally I love normal mode, I can try to take out the entire server in a sneaky way. If I'm spotted, my chases are really slim. However a lot of people are complaining about this, the difficulty level. When I spawn as the killer, I have an RP reason to start collecting items: I want to kill every other player and live. My chances would be abysmal to remain undetected with a pocket knife and a spray. The killer has to flawlessly kill a few players to be able to win the match if he or she did not quickly grab some medkits/regens. I'm forced to RP with myself to let watchers know I have a RP reason.

I'm not sure about this myself, normal mode is a touchy subject. But what do you think about giving the killer supplies at spawn?
One Medkit
One regenerative/syringe
A paint can
Feather
Taser
Billhook

Killer can focus the task/RPing, rather than searching for items quickly in panic.

I love this idea, but the items should obviously be randomized. While I think that they should always, always have a healing item, you could also switch up the other items. For example, two paint cans instead of a black feather, a bokken instead of a taser... but I'm unsure of what to say about the billhook because while maybe an axe-knife combo would be nice, if you're spawning with other items, this could posit another problem because you'll get overencumbered. The billhook is, in my opinion, the most balanced weapon and it makes a sound when you attack with it.

Your mileage may vary on the auditory indicator, however, because people can not only metagame knowing that the killer's weapon is always going to be a billhook, but it could compromise the killer. Personally I don't mind that, because metagaming rules are strictly enforced and anyone else could carry a billhook. It could draw roleplayers towards the scene of the crime, as well, and force more roleplay. If anyone is caught trying to accuse a person of being the killer just because they have a billhook, despite any of the person's defenses, then metagaming is much easier to detect in this scenario. It's not like Death Note, where everything you do can either be explained by coincidence or simply be waived just because you actually found Kira.

Here's what I think: the billhook that the killer spawns with should be unique. The billhook would be exactly the same as every other one cosmetically, but it would have increased damage to give killers an extra edge (no pun intended). I don't think this would break the game in the killer's favor, because even with a starting inventory, they can exhaust their items quickly, and they wouldn't even need to rush/hoard because they already have items to start with. So by the time they actually need to replace their equipment, people have already raided everything.
That would work perfectly to solve the whole 'IT'S TOO HARD TO BE KILLER IN NORMAL!' ordeal.

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4 Re: Gameplay/Balancing Suggestions on Tue May 15, 2012 2:35 pm

NESgamer190

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Game Master
Game Master
@ the Weight suggestion:
I humbly can not see much wrong on this move.

@ the anti-hoard improvements:
Nothing wrong here. Full support. Gets really ridiculous if someone manages to pack plenty of tasers.

@ the taser nerf:
I'll have to think on this a little before making my two cents apparent.

@ see inventory for host:
It's one of those "NEVER IMPLEMENT" blacklisted things. Sorry, but I don't see this happening.

@ Killer spawn:
Unsure on this idea myself. Probably could be toggled.

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5 Re: Gameplay/Balancing Suggestions on Tue May 15, 2012 4:24 pm

Egil

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Veteran
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I agree with everything except host-inventory-check. Pretty obvious why it's a highly controversial topic.

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6 Re: Gameplay/Balancing Suggestions on Tue May 15, 2012 4:40 pm

Ryuru

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Regular Member
Regular Member
1. This will restrict roleplay quite a bit, for example.. You might have a friend who you want to help bring a weapon. Someone else might be hurting themselves and so you may want to take the weapon from them. You might make the person you are fighting with pass out, and wish to take their weapon. It's useless to do that. I don't like having less weight then already given.

2. I'm cool with there being a hoard limit on healing items and paints. As well as other items.

3. I think tasers are fine as they are. I'm not bothered by them at all, but I'm flexible with this idea.

4. I agree with this completely. It would also make it easier to find people who break these rules. Rather than punish a creative roleplayer by putting limits on how much weight they can hold, making it easier to enforce the rules is probably a better plan. But only if the host is in watcher.

5. This.. I don't agree with at all. It makes the killer almost a bit OP, when it's already pretty easy to kill tons of people alone, depending on the circumstances. ... Though it would be better for when there are loads of players. If there are more than maybe 15 players, I'd support this. But if there are less, I'd prefer not.

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7 Re: Gameplay/Balancing Suggestions on Fri May 18, 2012 12:04 pm

Sachiko Shinozaki

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Giving the killer a special equipment?
That would really do a great service. The killer for example would be more dangerous and it would be much easier to tell random killers from the actual killer role.
I would even go to the point of saying why don't we give the killer a random item from a list of items that are made for the killer only and spice it up a bit.

Give the killer a special weapon or make him spawn as Nanaya in rare cases.
Make alondite for example a killer only weapon. Its use for the killer can be so much greater and we would probably prevent a few basement rushs.

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8 Re: Gameplay/Balancing Suggestions on Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:48 pm

Great idea in building the killer up with items, but i sorta wish that more servers turn on one hit kill....

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9 Re: Gameplay/Balancing Suggestions on Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:28 pm

Ryuzaki

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Member
Member
[quote="Sachiko Shinozaki"]Give the killer a special weapon or make him spawn as Nanaya in rare cases.

Got 250% of my support for that, A Nanaya spawning once or twice per 10 rounds as bonus for ze killer would sound really cool, since they can be RPable as real killers

In my opinion, Nanayas should be random like, for all the students, something like a 2% chance of one student becoming one upon spawn, Two Nanaya Killers in one cage surrounded by rabbits trying to kill each other, Just imagine that... o-o

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